Author Topic: Recess Screws Ltd  (Read 110 times)

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Online KeithG

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2020, 10:30:53 PM »
The modern type of screw for softwood uses no hole at all and is screwed directly into the two pieces thus not really using the force of joining the two pieces very tightly as the thread is put in both pieces... If anything the wood can be forced apart.
But then you can get other designed screws for other applications..... It goes on and on!
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Online MartinR

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2020, 10:16:43 PM »
Sorry Keith, in the penultimate paragraph you said that was the correct way, but I understood from the previous paragraph you were saying the that modern (post 2000) professional practice is to "the continuous thread screw is driven into the first piece with no drilled hole and so it then grips the piece under it to fix them together, the thing is the pieces of timber are not forced together by the screw but only the pressure on them when the screw is first applied to the piece underneath."  It was this that I was surprised at.

Online KeithG

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2020, 10:05:49 PM »
I'm also surprised that you read my post incorrectly!

Read again the next to last paragraph and you will see how to do it properly  ;D

Working with wood it depends what type hard /softwood if you have a tapping thread or not? Also what material the screw is made of even what load the screw has to hold?

These things are gained by experience and not from a book.
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Online MartinR

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 08:13:21 PM »
I'm suprised that you say that no clearance hole is made first.  I was taught to size the drill  by ensuring that the clearance drill obscured the thread and shank, and that the tapping drill was totally hidden by the core.  If you don't drill the wood correctly IME it splits.  Mind, I've got a bit lazy recently and have installed an old Amazon Fire in the workshop.  It has nice lists of core diameters and clearance for both machine screws and wood screws. :)

Online KeithG

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2020, 06:17:23 PM »
I could write a book on fixings but alas on Google lots have beaten me to it!


I did know that the Phillips design screw head was patented in the 1930`s but did not know that it`s design was so that it could let go of the bit during high torque as in practice that does not happen firstly if your actual bit is new or not worn and second if you put a large screw in you do actually push hard so therefore the bit cannot and does not jump out the screw head.


I started my apprenticeship in 1963 and working at the old Kent County Council Medway College of Technology Fort Horsted Chatham now a housing estate!......i was brought up strictly "Old School" in the Maintenance Department so therefore used wooden planes and slotted screws with a hand screwdriver. Even the Yankee spiral screwdriver was out of  bounds.


After about a year we used Phillips and Posidrive head screws but still hand cabinet screwdrivers. Of course as time progresses time is money and also the grades of timber were also worse with knots everywhere, in the 60`s there were hardly any knots in the timber, now we have quick growing whitewood B&Q etc. which is truly awful timber dry as a bone, it is the moisture in the timber that helps give it strength.


These screws with a continuous parallel thread have been produced since 2000 which suits the speed of the more modern worker to make more money with the least effort.......The art of fixing one piece of timber to another has to be used to make the joint as strong as possible, which of course is the idea of construction, but the continuous thread screw is driven into the first piece with no drilled hole and so it then grips the piece under it to fix them together, the thing is the pieces of timber are not forced together by the screw but only the pressure on them when the screw is first applied to the piece underneath.


The proper way to do this is to drill a thread clearance hole in the first piece and then put the screw in the hole and screw it to the other piece of timber thus the screw squeezes together the two pieces under pressure regulated by the maximum amount the correct screw size can give. Yes it can take longer but not much when you have two drills on the go but you end up with a much stronger job.


Talking about fixings, my first job on turning up at work was to put the glue pot on to heat up of course it was the animal glue then most widely used in workshops by the mid `60`s we were on Casco ,not waterproof, and Cascamite, 100% waterproof and then onto the PVA white glue but not waterproof then?



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Offline Pete

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2020, 08:40:36 AM »
Curious that it seems only the chinese use phillips now most other is  pozidrive

Offline Dave Smith

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2020, 11:59:19 PM »
KeithG. Do you know when Philips head screws took over from slotted? And when did the modern idea of not drilling holes, just screw a parallel continuous thread screw through both pieces of wood?

Online KeithG

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 09:36:50 PM »
smiffy...... this is the reason for torque settings on drivers. Being a joiner builder all my life designs of screw heads and screw shanks have really been over done to try and take more than the producers fair share of the market.
Some designs make the DIY person think they are the best to use but in practice are not........ just much more expensive to purchase for no advantage in fixing.
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Offline Smiffy

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 08:21:27 PM »
I understand that Robertson drivers can grip too well, meaning that for use with power tools there was a tendency to sometimes overdrive the screw, something less likely to happen with the Phillips.

Online MartinR

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 07:33:41 PM »
There's a write-up in Wikipedia about Robertson screws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson

Offline Pete

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Re: Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 06:24:09 PM »
Screwfix or Toolstation were selling these up until very recently. When Pozidrive were launched Stanley did an intro pack like above, screwdriver and a selection of screw. Not sure when this was but thinking mid 60s, costing 7/6. I've still got the driver, grips perfectly and minimal wear, would that they made them like that now.

Offline Smiffy

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Recess Screws Ltd
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2020, 05:34:36 PM »

Most people know of Jubilee clips and their connection with Gillingham, but there was once another company that had a factory in Gillingham with the potential to be even more successful.
 
We take simple things like screws for granted these days but it wasn't until 1760 that the first large scale production of them started. Up until then they were expensive to make, and so mainly used for specialist purposes. Slotted screws became the norm due to their ease of manufacture and it remained that way thoughout the 19th century.
 
Canadian by birth, Peter Lymburner Robertson had a talent for invention and originally worked as a travelling salesman. One day he was demonstrating a new spring loaded screwdriver when it slipped (cammed-out) and cut his hand quite badly. It was this that gave him the idea for a new and safer design of screw that would help to prevent this sort of thing from happening to anyone else. After a while he eventually came up with a design for a screw that had a cavity for the driver rather than a slot. This was not a totally new concept, others had come up with similar ideas but they hadn't been successful due to manufacturing issues. His new design was better, having a tapered cavity that didn't deform the head, was cold forged and cheap to make. He took out a patent for it in 1907, which was approved in 1909. After securing a means of production, this became known as the Robertson Drive and quickly achieved popularity with boat builders and furniture companies because of its ability to avoid the cam-out issue which could potentially give rise to expensive damage.
 
The factory was located in Ontario and in 1913 Fisher auto bodies, which made wooden parts for the Model T Ford, started using the Robertson screw in large numbers. Later they would use a newer Robertson screw developed for use on the metal bodied Ford model A. The opportunity soon presented itself to expand internationally, and this resulted in the establishment of the Recess Screw company in Gillingham. With the premises located in Pier Approach Road, this new company would eventually be providing employment for 400 workers. But with the advent of the Great War, the factory which had been set up to make "The screw that grips the driver" was largely turned over to war production. Making things such as firing pins for grenades and trench mortars, the company was eventually taken over by the government and Robertson decided to resign as director. With the main business still being carried on in Canada, the factory in Gillingham continued to operate but was eventually wound up in 1926. The assets were subsequently purchased by the Kent Construction and Engineering Company of Ashford, and renamed Recess Screws (1926) Ltd. Their own screw  manufacturing business being incorporated within the new company. I can find no other information regarding this company, including whether or not they continued with the manufacture of Recess screws.
 

 
Many other companies, including Ford, wanted to use these screws but Henry Ford also wanted an exclusive contract and a say in production. Despite this, Robertson refused to give up control and so the deal fell through, resulting in a considerable loss of business. By 1934, the Phillips screw had become available and unlike Robertson, Phillips happily licensed it out to many companies, including General motors. Eventually nearly all other transport and aircraft companies - including Ford, were using the Phillips screw. With the advent of WWII and a massive increase in industrial output, this resulted in the Phillips, not the Robertson screw, becoming the industry standard. Although to this day it is still extremely popular in Canada, outside of specialist use the Robertson design continues to remain largely unknown in the rest of the world.