The Kent History Forum

Aviation History => Aircraft Factories and manufacturers => Topic started by: castle261 on October 02, 2019, 02:12:26 PM

Title: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 02, 2019, 02:12:26 PM
I worked for Shorts when I was 14, in the production office, situated just outside the main gate.
My job entailed taking ` flimsies ` out to the various stores. `Flimsies ` consisted of 3 sheets
of paper, and one sheet of pink cardboard. I used to visit all the main `Shops`and at one time
I went to the head office to deliver a paper, opening the main office door, I was confronted with
a group of men sitting down, I beat a hastily retreat when I recignised -------- Lord Beaverbrook.
For a small boy to wander among all those Sunderlands, in various stages of being built, was Bliss !
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Cosmo Smallpiece on October 02, 2019, 02:59:16 PM
I would love to hear more about this factory. More details please!


I'm told that wings for the other (airfield) factory Stirling wings were lorried in over Rochester bridge. I particularly curious about what other local factories supplied Shorts.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 02, 2019, 06:19:32 PM
Of the seaplane works, there were No 3 `shop `, where 3 Sunderland`s were assembled.
The two other `shops ` were No 17 and No 18. Out side the No 18 `shop `was one plane
that was an experimental plane. The canteen used to be host to the BBC `workers playtime `.
This show I remember had Stan Stenett the comedian, and was broadcast all over Britain.


You are right about the wings of the Stirling Bomber, I saw them transported on RAF 60 foot
trailers, coming out of the airport works.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on October 03, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
No 18 Shop  was where Blaw Knox was situated and where my Dad worked for Shorts. He was a leading hand either sheet metal or engines, we've no real info. to confirm exactly what he was.
I have a pic somewhere of him with a big group of  workers and visiting dignitaries beside a plane and also of him when they started building buses in those same workshops.
I'll try to find them and post them up.
AlanTH.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 03, 2019, 02:10:55 PM
My brother and brother in-law, both worked for the seaplane works. both -- sheet metal workers
My brother volunteered for the R.A.F. in 1939
My brother-in-law was called up, sent into coal mines in 1942.
I was called up for the R.A.F. in 1945 -- medically unfit. 
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: CAT on October 04, 2019, 08:45:37 AM
This is an image I originally posted on the previous KHF, but thought it would be apt to have it here also?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 04, 2019, 11:14:43 AM
That looks like the No 3 Shop slip way / or the No 18 slipway ? ---------- CAT.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 04, 2019, 11:27:17 AM
Cosmo --- the fuselage was transported in two pieces as well, also by two R.A.F trailers.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Smiffy on October 04, 2019, 04:45:27 PM
Sunderlands under construction
(https://i.postimg.cc/1R8jhrnw/Shorts1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


I think these are Seafords
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx5YVNqM/Shorts2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)



One of the enormous Shetlands. Only two were built, I think this must be the second. All photos date to 1946
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vs2HY0nT/Shorts3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Cosmo Smallpiece on October 06, 2019, 12:45:26 PM
Cosmo --- the fuselage was transported in two pieces as well, also by two R.A.F trailers.


Now I think about it, it was the fuselage being transported over Rochester bridge that I was told about. The Stirling wings must have been too wide for that?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 06, 2019, 06:06:09 PM
The wings were transported up right, two to a trailer I believe. Memory is a wonderful thing !
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: jimawilliams on October 06, 2019, 09:53:40 PM
 Really interesting photographs smiffy.  Two things really do surprise me about these are
1  The apparent total lack of an organised layout compared to a modern large factory / assembly line.
2  Surely planes were manufactured indoors, but there are no supporting beams for any roof structure.  Given the size of the planes I would be interested to see the design of the building.
 
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: jimawilliams on October 06, 2019, 10:00:07 PM
 Really interesting photographs smiffy.  Two things really do surprise me about these are
1  The apparent total lack of an organised layout compared to a modern large factory / assembly line.
2  Surely these photos were taken indoors, but there are no supporting beams for any roof structure.  Given the size of the planes I would be interested to see the design of the building.
 
(Second attempt at posting the above,as the font size appeared too small to read on the initial post)
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: jimawilliams on October 06, 2019, 10:05:49 PM
Really interesting photographs smiffy.  Two things really do surprise me about these images.1 The apparent total lack of any organised layout compared to a modern factory / large assembly line.2 Surely these planes were manufactured indoors, however there are no supporting beams for any roof structure.  Given the size of the planes I would be interested to see the design of the building, if it is indeed indoors.
(3rd attempt at posting this post to get font size readable)
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Smiffy on October 06, 2019, 11:55:37 PM
It puzzles me as well that they all seemed to be assembled outdoors exposed to all sorts of weather and not under cover as you would expect. Perhaps castle261 can throw some light on this?
 
I've also had some problems with font size. I check first with a preview and then if necessary I cut the whole post and then paste it back in again. This can sometimes fix things.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: MartinR on October 07, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 07, 2019, 03:16:15 PM
I possible solution could be that the Ministry of Aircraft Production, decided that Shorts Bros.
should be dispersed to other factories. My brother was in the R.A.F. that decided that any
R.A.F. personal, that worked in aircraft factories, could be released under a `B` release scheme,
to help with aircraft production. He applied and was sent to Trout Beck Bridge, in Lake Windermere.
to make Sunderlands there. I went there during the war to see him, a Sunderland was on the lake.
I read that the Stirling aircraft from Short`s went to a factory assembly plant, near Birmingham.


Where there other aircraft assembly plants, around the county, as well ?


Another section, I wrote `I saw Lord Beaverbrook in conference at Shorts in 1942 `.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on October 07, 2019, 03:34:22 PM
The only Sunderland that was outside, was on the No 18 slip. ` EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT `.

                    ( It`s happening to ME now )
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on November 04, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
Hi, castle 261. I was an apprentice at the Seaplane works from July 1945 until January 1947 when we juniors were told that the works were closing & all production was being moved to Short & Harland in Belfast. So we best find another firm who would take us on & extend our indentures. Some of my friends went to Wingets, in Strood & others to Blaw & Knox( who eventually took over No.18 shop). I had always been very interested in aircraft, instigated I suspect by my uncle Hector Smith who had been the chauffeur/mechanic to the 3 Short Brothers, driving their Rolls Royce when they were over on the Isle of Sheppey. He then became an aero mechanic with Shorts (loved the Pobjoy engines they used) & was a member of the team who started up Shorts at what is now Rochester airport. His tales, told with great enthusiasm, were many & varied- hence my addiction! At that time the RAF were advertising for apprentices for Halton, so I sat their exam, passed & spent several years at Halton, etc. Re the shops at the Seaplane Works. The 1st inside the gate was No.1 ( machine shop & detailing section) then a small No.2 ( offices) then No.3 which was final assembly where the engines were fitted- by Bristol personnel- & the a/c was launched down one of the two slipways into the Medway. Various small shops facing the river or behind ( spray booth, panel beaters, lofting hall, canteen over one of them- good grub, only 6d for apprentices, etc.). Then No.17 shop where main planes were assembled & finally No. 18 shop where various sub assemblies were made & different aircraft ( eg Shetland) were kept prior to moving out onto the very large apron at the side.My trade was Fitter & Sheetmetal Worker & I worked in Nos. 18, 17 & 1 ( detail) shops. In recent years I've visited Rochester Museum to find, to my dismay- that there is no area there dedicated to Shorts!( the 2nd largest, by far, employer in the Medway Towns). They just don't have the room but one day.... I gave then some of my tools & other artifacts, which are stored in the basement- just resting! About 5 years ago Liz Walker- the great niece of the Short Bros.- started the Short Brothers Commemoration Society. She- like me- was sad to see the pioneers of the British aircraft industry- & makers of the first world travel aircraft (C Class flying boats) & long range anti submarine aircraft in WW2 (Sunderlands)- with no history in the City/County in which they operated. ( If you go to Stoke, the
designer of the Spitfire,
RJMitchell, is very proudly celebrated).       
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on November 04, 2019, 10:00:27 PM
Having replied to some posts, I now find there are a lot more that were not shown then. So, hopefully to clarify. I think all those Sunderland fuselages together with Sunderland V & 3 Seafords + Shetland II all on the apron outside No. 18  shop are about 1947 when Shorts closed. They are NOT being manufactured!( see my earlier post re shop useage). All "the  rubbish" surrounding them is after a good clear out ready for the new companies to move in. Shorts had a very big presence in Bedford during the war, a big shadow factory. The wings would definitely have been transported on the 60ft long Queen Mary's, they could take 2 side by side (upright not flat) as span was 112ft, so wings just over 50ft.
The Stirling wings were very similar to Sunderlands s
[/size][/color]
o would also have gone on a Queen Mary over Rochester bridge. 
If of interest to anyone, basically, Sunderlands were the RAF aircraft; Mk's 1,2,3 & 5. The Seaford ( we called it the IV) had a large fairing on the fore of the fin. [/size][/color]
Sandringhams were a civil version of the Mk.V & Solents the civil Seaford.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on November 07, 2019, 09:01:27 AM
Hi Dave Smith (and others of course).
My Dad worked in No.18 shop during those years you were there I'm sure. I vaguely remember him going on to work at Guildford Surrey when Shorts closed down in Rochester.
He died in 1952 (smoking diseases) and was very badly treated by Shorts with his pension entitlements.
I believe the last remnants of Shorts have now gone after Bombadier their last owner in Belfast recently sold off their assets their due to various problems.
AlanTh.

PS. I really must hunt down that pic I have of him and his fellow workers and psot it here.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: epsom on November 07, 2019, 11:37:13 AM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on November 14, 2019, 04:03:15 PM
Very, very, interesting -- Dave Smith --- I have only just read your latest comments.
They are very detailed, thank you for that. As a boy of 14, my eyes sort out the finish Sunderlands.     I was not sure about the shops between No 3 shop and  No 17 shop, as my work probably, would
not take me into these shops, very often.


Cant vouch for those Sunderland`s being on No 18 slip -- Smiffy

Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on December 08, 2019, 05:23:42 PM
2 Photos from Smiffy, have been removed, from my computer ---- copyright --- ( one still there ? )
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: epsom on December 09, 2019, 09:22:49 AM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on December 09, 2019, 06:01:40 PM
Both photo`s returned today......
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on December 10, 2019, 09:43:24 AM
30 quid to walk round a few mouldy old tunnels! I did that for nothing many years ago whilst an apprentice at Blaw Knox although of course we got in them despite the obstacles like shuttering to stop us doing it. :)
I doubt we saw the whole system though, just the parts out the back our factory and Burnett and Rolfe, Berry Ede and White etc.
AlanH.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Smiffy on December 10, 2019, 01:46:51 PM
Tunnel exploration from a couple of years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQPv0nW8ah8
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on December 10, 2019, 04:19:24 PM
Bigger than I thought --- and I worked there --- I did not know of their existance.
I would think some one like - Medway Council - should put it on their agenda to
re-store it - for future generations - to come & see- ( like Jersey i.o.w. did )























Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Medway Born and Bred on December 10, 2019, 05:11:41 PM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on December 12, 2019, 01:14:56 PM
When we went to Jersey in May 1958 we visited the `Underground Hospital ` it was a shell then.
I have seen news reel of it now - it`s a money spinner.
We approached the entrance of the tunnel, it was deadly cold, we could have done with a jumper.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on December 12, 2019, 07:28:19 PM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on December 12, 2019, 07:41:01 PM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on December 12, 2019, 08:15:31 PM
Very interesting, your two reports today. Interesting about Troutbeck Bridge.
I must have been about twelve, when we went by train, through the night.
I remember nothing about the housing estate, only the Sunderland on the lake.
My brother trained at Shorts Rochester. His `mate`at Windermere, he married her.
I have photo`s of the Maia & Mercury that I made out of old tins, while in the Dockyard.
I may be able to put them in the `Avatar ` section. ( cant do them any other way )
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: pete.mason on February 11, 2020, 05:30:13 PM


I'm told that wings for the other (airfield) factory Stirling wings were lorried in over Rochester bridge. I particularly curious about what other local factories supplied Shorts.


According to an elderly neighbour of ours in the 1970s Reeds at Aylesford was a shadow factory producing fabric covered ailerons and rudders. She had worked there as a machinist

Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Colin walsh on March 02, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on March 03, 2020, 05:54:28 PM
Colin. When I worked in 17 shop in 1946, there were 2 girls who were a team of riveters. 1 very tall, nearly 6', the other very short, nearer 5'- she was very jolly. The long & the short! Never knew their names. I wonder whether she was your eldest sister? Nacelles are the metal fabrication attached to the front ( leading edge) of the wing from which the engines are attached to the aircraft.(The weight of the engine is actually taken up by a framework of support tubes attached to the wing spar ). The engines also are enclosed in nacelles. Smooths the airflow & makes it all look nice & neat. The "rivet snaps" are actually for use with " pop rivets", which are used by an individual where you can't get behind to hold the " dolly". (This is the heavy lump of metal, held by the mate, that takes the strain when "thumping" a normal rivet in place).
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on March 03, 2020, 07:05:50 PM
You have jogged my memory Pete `Supplying Shorts`. ` ( I had forgot all about this one, until Pete )             
My elder brother worked for ` Bradshaws ` A  building opposite the `Banks` in Rochester High St.
near the old rail station.  One evening, he bought home these two alluminimum pieces only about
three inches long, both bent to form a Square U, to be riveted together. The whole family were
put on this urgent job, so we were hammering all evening. for several night, to get them all done.
We were paid ---- something like a shilling for two dozen completed, correctly, through Short Bros.


He bought home bags of rivets, hammers & other items to hold the metal together, while riveting.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Colin walsh on March 04, 2020, 05:15:02 AM
Hi Dave a smith ,thank you for your recollections ,yes my sister worked at Shorts right up till lt closed,sis did in fact did  have a very tall friend,Thay often went out together,Thay both wore bib and brace type overalls and head scarves ,turban fashion ,
It was only a couple of years ago I got rid of her "tool box"a small wooden case  very batterd had all sorts of strange tools in it ,a hammer with a squre head ,a couple of "t" shaped bits of steel  one side of the t had a hole approx 1/4 " thrush it the other side had a 1/4 domed inset?very faintly ,painted on the lid was the word "number eight shop "plus a number of aluminum 'top hats with steel nails through them.thanks for the memory ,

Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on March 04, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
Tool box ----- Brother made his own tool box --- from scrap ( ha ha ) material.
Well he was a `Shorts trained `sheet metal worker `before joining the R.A.F.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on March 04, 2020, 11:59:20 AM
I was also an apprentice fitter & sheet metal worker at Shorts( which is why I went into the RAF as an Apprentice Engine Fitter- I knew nothing about engines) but didn't make my own tool box ( you'd have needed some pretty large pieces of " scrap" for that!), my Dad gave me mine. The one thing that ALL shop floor workers in aircraft factories made, was a cigarette lighter- usually from a block of Dural.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on March 04, 2020, 12:24:39 PM
Colin. More memories- that could well be them, bib & brace overalls & hair in a head scarf . The square head hammer was a panel beater's hammer- very rare. The tee bar with the hole was to "close" the joint first & then the dome inset was to allow the rivet head to be formed.  I left ( Jan '47) before Shorts finally closed & moved what was left to Belfast, a very sad day. If you have any bits left, rather than throwing them out, do as I did & donate to Rochester Museum. These were all put in the basement as they don't- or didn't- have a Short Bros. area. I told them it was a travesty that Shorts- the first manufacturers of aircraft in Great Britain- had almost no reference despite being by far the second largest employer in the Medway towns. They were hopeful that ONE! day, there may be room enough. 
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on March 08, 2020, 12:39:57 PM
Colin. I forgot to say that the "top hats" with a nail through them were pop rivets. The nail was inserted in the hand gun & the rivet was inserted in the drilled hole( no.30 drill for an 1/8" rivet). As you pulled the handle, collets clamped the nail then pulled it down into the head of the rivet, the round head of the nail expanding the rivet into the hole. Continuing, the head snapped off.     
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: MartinR on March 08, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
Quote
They were hopeful that ONE! day, there may be room enough.
So why have they just flogged off the Medway Commissioners' offices?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Colin walsh on April 16, 2020, 05:43:49 AM
Dave Smith,sad to hear there is no Short Bros section in Rochester mesueam,wonder what happend to all the wonderfull models that were on display just inside the main door in the mid fifties ?the curator then ,a Mr Boulton ,told me Thay were gifted to the corporation by Shorts management,recollect there was a fairly large scale Sunderland flying boat,plus a beautiful Mayo &Mecury composite,and my favorite a Saro ,in fact I clearly remember looking at this display started me on a life long "thing"about model air craft,still build today ,though my pension finds it hard to cope with the ridiculous prices of modern kits,.😱
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on April 16, 2020, 11:31:06 AM
Strange Dave Smith, about the model of the Mayo & Mercury.
Well while i was in the nuclear section, in the dockyard, I made a model of them, took two years.
I got a book from Chatham library, about the two. I collected as many tins as I , Later people were collecting them for me. I searched the dockyard for a suitable soldering iron. Then ( later ) I stumbled on an electric soldering . There was a `hot plate` in most cranes, I was using a hand soldering iron then. Night shift was best for good work. The driver of the crane on two dock, often looked in on me.
I may be able to post a photo of them, in the avatar. He helped me to get them out of the dockyard.
They got lost, when I moved into my present flat in 1994.   


The models were about the same size as the Shorts models -- 16 -- 18 inch wingspan.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Smiffy on April 16, 2020, 01:10:25 PM
After the council moved to the old Wingets building, I clearly remember the Mayo/Mercury model on display in the foyer. But as has been mentioned previously - what happened to it?
 
Colin - I have a model kit of a Flower Class Corvette which I had the intention to build as the one my father served on during the the war. After I bought it I didn't have the time and then had to move to a smaller place, so it's been on "indefinite hold" for years now!
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: pete.mason on April 16, 2020, 02:01:19 PM
The Canopus pub at Borstal had the control column on display, no idea if it,or thr pub, still exist
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: MartinR on April 16, 2020, 02:23:18 PM
Pub's closed and I think it's now flats.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on April 16, 2020, 07:51:45 PM
Colin. When I visited Rochester museum, there was a model Sunderland in the display cabinet at the entrance- but that was it! Maybe the other models are in the basement, for they took all my tools, photographs & other memorabilia to put in the basement for a, hopeful, new display of Shorts when they have the space. That will be the day! I only once saw the Mayo & Mercury flying, just before WW2. The Saro SA1 was the first jet(gas turbine) powered flying boat, made by Saro, not Shorts, in Southampton- I think- they probably had a lot of help in the fuselage "planing bottom" from Shorts who had a very long test tank for that purpose. Castle 261.You made a model of the M/M composite in metal? Wow, that needed some doing, congratulations on your fortitude over 2 years. What a great pity they were lost. I made a 1/72nd scale Sunderland in wood-all my models were in wood as plastic die cast were not available during the war. Dad could always get me some offcuts from the Yard! And we had a model club at the County School where we could purchase coloured dope in small amounts for painting the models. Smiffy. They did tell me at R.museum that there were some item at the new council offices in Strood but as I was on a flying visit, I didn't have time to go there, maybe that model is in their basement? What happened to the control column from the Canopus I wonder. I'm sorry that I don't live in the Medway towns now for there is a lot of interest to investigate.( C19 would have scuppered that anyway!) 
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Colin walsh on April 17, 2020, 12:54:12 AM
Smiffy,the flower class corvette was a really good kit,I built one many moons ago,my father allso served on one, HMS Daffodil ,he allways said"the *****things would roll on wet grass"never quite understood the meaning of that?.
I see you made model aircraft as a rabbit in the yard,my rabbit was making Napoleonic cannons,had a chap in the effluent treatment plant turned up beautiful brass barrels for me,allways good quality wood laying about for gun carriages and wheels,specifically when the ward room was being refitted on the nuks,refference the control column the Canopus pub,had it was offered at auction of flying memrobelea many moons ago,along with some artifacts of Sir Alan Chobham,one being a photograph of the"winkle"I think a story was told of a pilot landing it and then being found dead by the tender crew.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Colin walsh on April 17, 2020, 01:09:39 AM
Smiffy, apologies I got confused with castle261 blog.ref dockyard "rabbit club"fiddles,I know it rude of me to confuse you gentalman,.
Unfortunately I suffer from meniers disease ,mainly affects balance,but sometimes can muddle my thinking,so will control my posting to lucid times.
Mei culper Dominus

Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: pete.mason on April 17, 2020, 08:48:57 AM
chanced googling Canopus Column, came up with https://100objectskent.co.uk/object/canopus-flying-boat-steering-column/ (https://100objectskent.co.uk/object/canopus-flying-boat-steering-column/)    seemingly at Guildhall Museum Rochester
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Smiffy on April 17, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
No worries Colin. Dad was on HMS Clarkia for most of the war and always spoke very fondly of his time serving on her. I uploaded some of his photos to the Flower Class Corvette Forum. Enough of that though as things are starting to go a bit off-topic :-X
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on April 21, 2020, 11:17:07 AM
Alan TH. During my self isolation(5th week now), I've found that re-reading KHF posts an interesting past time. It struck me that when you mentioned your dad working at Blaw Knox after transferring from Shorts, one of my friends, Roy Thomas did just that. So is TH, Thomas?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on April 25, 2020, 10:18:54 AM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on April 27, 2020, 11:21:13 AM
Now Theodore seems to foot the bill
do you have it, want it or have it still
`Tis a name to be proud - President
Roosevelt was it`s best --   resident


Keep it, love it, say it ----- with pride
TH ----- what are you trying to hide ?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on April 29, 2020, 11:21:21 AM
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on April 29, 2020, 01:34:06 PM
Good reply ------------TH
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: johnfilmer on January 31, 2021, 05:39:35 PM
This picture was found in an old book being used as a bookmark. Nothing on the back, but I assume a Shorts plane.
Any details known?
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Cosmo Smallpiece on January 31, 2021, 06:10:39 PM
It's a Short Shetland.


Looks like the first prototype of only two. This one intended as military but without the turrets fitted. Regrettably caught fire soon afterwards.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on February 02, 2021, 09:37:18 AM
How strange! I see my reply to this thread earlier has got nothing in it. Probably makes more sense than some of the other replies I make on other threads. :)
Anyway, my father worked at Shorts in the old No 18 shop which became Blaw Knox who I did an apprenticeship with, but he never worked at BK.
From memory and it is a long time ago, he travelled to Guildford I think and somewhere else to work but I'm unsure if that was still when in the employ of Shorts.
AlanTH


PS. No the TH is nothing to do with any Thomas.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: castle261 on February 02, 2021, 11:03:48 AM
The No 18 shop at Shorts Seaplane Works - was a place where they implemented new innovations.
Once while delivering `Flimsies`- I stopped to look at the Sunderland on the slipway there. (1941)
At 14 - I was interested in all aircraft - ours & theirs - this Sunderland was bristling with aerials
along the top of it - four of them - After a while I moved on.

` Flimsies`- work cards to draw `stores`with - I worked for the Production Office by the Main Gate.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: Dave Smith on February 02, 2021, 12:50:30 PM
Castle. The masts were an early form of radar & those Sunderlands were then called "porcupines" for obvious reasons. As an Apprentice, I worked in 18 shop for 6 months when I first started.We made all the early parts necessary to convert Mk. V's built at Short & Harland in Belfast into Sandringhams. My job was the front door in the streamline nose for a crew member to open, lean out & hook up the flying boat  to the mooring buoy. On Sunderlands, the front turret slid back to make a gap to do the same. Blaw knox took over 18 shop when they first arrived in 1947, as it was large enough to accept their " earth movers" etc. I well remember "flimsies", without them you couldn't start or finish a job & they needed the charge hand's signature. And, with luck, if you were quick enough you got a bonus.
Title: Re: Short brothers. Seaplane Works !
Post by: AlanTH on May 06, 2023, 10:35:04 AM
"I well remember "flimsies", without them you couldn't start or finish a job & they needed the charge hand's signature. And, with luck, if you were quick enough you got a bonus."
Those flimsies and the piece work bonus system at BK enabled me to become what they reckoned was one of the highest paid apprentices in the county. :)
In my last 2 years there I built gearboxes for the graders, pavers and mixers etc and was good at it. I enjoyed my over 5 years there but left 3 weeks after finishing my "time" and went to work at the IPM paper mill at Gravesend along with another ex-apprentice, Brian Butler.
Anyone else work there at the No. 18 shop or the new building BK put up for the final assembly work?
AlanTH.