The Kent History Forum
Geography in Kent => City, Town and Village Histories => Topic started by: Mike Gunnill on June 27, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
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Has anyone seen photographs of the Overshore, a hamlet on Otterham Creek, Upchurch/Rainham?
There was a collection of 20 cottages. The hamlet was taken over, I think by the nearby cement factory and a Wakeley Brothers brickfield. It was there 1915/1916 as I have seen reported dead fighting in WW1.
The brickfield was noted on maps from 1858, then 1891-1898. The cement factory, owned by Blue Circle when it closed in 1915. The area had a wharf for in and out shipments for cement and another owned by Wakeley Brothers. They built barges and later had a repair only business, this was called Wakeley Brothers Wharf. The area still has a wharf, the last owner was Peter Woodger. On his death the wharf was put up for sale. The wharf is the only thing that remains today.
Grateful for any suggestions and/or help from members.
Still: Keep Safe.
Mike
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Haven't seen any images.
However the last recorded event in St Mary's Parish register's mentioning Overshore was the baptism of Daisy Packer of Overshore Huts on May 2nd 1900.
On the 1891 Census most families at Overshore lived in Coveney Lane .Presume that,s where the Cottages you mention were.
The Cement Factory appears to be of Burgis(sic) Burge and Baron.
Interestingly , Electoral roll entries for Overshore folk state Polling District or Place as Halstow.
Good Luck with your Quest , :)
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No images so far (although I'm confused about which brickworks); I assume you've seen https://www.cementkilns.co.uk/cement_kiln_falcon.html (https://www.cementkilns.co.uk/cement_kiln_falcon.html)
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Nemo
The Burge and Barron Cement works was on the Wakely Brickfields at Overshore.
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I see the name still lives on in the form of a small caravan site.
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No images so far (although I'm confused about which brickworks); I assume you've seen https://www.cementkilns.co.uk/cement_kiln_falcon.html (https://www.cementkilns.co.uk/cement_kiln_falcon.html)
Nemo:
Don't be confused leave that to me! Yes I have seen that site. Wakeley Brothers also had a brickfield next door.
Thanks
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Mike, the reason I'm confused is that the Burge works closed in 1915 as you and t'other site say. On the other hand, Messrs Eastwood's site at Overshore was in operation in, say, 1894 (c.f. BNA) and carried on well into living memory. I guess they were simply next door as you say.
I notice that there was a White House at Overshore, home of Percy Betts who died in WW1.
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It might be useful for someone to show on a map where definitively Overshore Cottages was?
The brick fields themselves are confusing enough. Eastwood's was the one north of Halstow? Funtons was further east again.
On old maps Falcon's Cement (Burge) is marked. There is a brick fields shown east next door and another marked south. There are two other brick fields either side of the Three Sisters pub. Were these four sites all Wakeley?
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Is this Lord Stanley pub in the rough area?
http://www.rainham-history.co.uk/latest/30-the-lord-stanley (http://www.rainham-history.co.uk/latest/30-the-lord-stanley)
http://www.rainham-history.co.uk/latest/30-the-lord-stanley (http://www.rainham-history.co.uk/latest/30-the-lord-stanley)
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Talking of which... http://www.dover-kent.com/2014-project-b/Lord-Stanley-Upchurch.html (http://www.dover-kent.com/2014-project-b/Lord-Stanley-Upchurch.html) (same image, mind!)
Overshore Cottages appear in the (zoomable) map in the link in post 3.
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Overshore cottages were once pretty isolated, perhaps built for brick field workers? Later they became integrated within the Falcon cement works.
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Have a look in Nemo's first post for the cement kilns. Then the 1912 plan of Falcon Cement. They are marked one row behind the wharf! Missed them before.
What a place to have lived!
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It might be useful for someone to show on a map where definitively Overshore Cottages was?
The brick fields themselves are confusing enough. Eastwood's was the one north of Halstow? Funtons was further east again.
On old maps Falcon's Cement (Burge) is marked. There is a brick fields shown east next door and another marked south. There are two other brick fields either side of the Three Sisters pub. Were these four sites all Wakeley?
At one time there were about 20 brickfields nearby. Near was one on right alongside Otterham Quay. The one I am interested in, is next to the cement factory-which was owned by Wakeley Brothers.
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Overshore cottages were once pretty isolated, perhaps built for brick field workers? Later they became integrated within the Falcon cement works.
I have seen these before Smiffy but forgotten about them. I think when the cement factory continued to expand it surrounded the cottages on Coveney Lane. Prior to the cement factory arriving, the cottages were for Wakeley brickfield workers. Most of the entries in the 1891 census confirm this. Coveney Lane was the only way in and out for transport. Workers used a footpath from Otterham Quay which joined Coveney Lane. All cement left via the cement company wharf and Wakeley's brickworks material left by their own wharf.
I walked close to the site recently, which is fenced off and was the subject of a planning application. The main wharf, is still there but remains of the cottages. In recent years, the site was used as a concrete crushing plant. The resulting material was used along the Hoo side of the river, to support the river bank.
I have a request in with the owners asking them about it's history but I am sure they will answer they don't know anything. I have old Barron clay maps from 1900 which shows where clay was removed for cement. These show the best detail and clearly show in Otterham Creek that usable clay was running out. This together with the start of WW1 would cause the surprise closure of the site. Wakeley Brothers had built barges on the site for years. It then became a repair only yard, mainly for their own fleet of barges. I think it was stopped completely about 1930.
I have a picture of Otterham Cottage residents dressed up for a Sunday outing. Several residents moved from the cottages to Otterham Quay, some Luton and a great deal moved into Upchurch village. I would still like to see a picture of the old cottages if possible.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback and help. My quest continues............
ADD: Strangely when Wakeley Brothers went out of business, everything was sold off, orchards, land the old brickfield site. They forgot about the access road, which was owned by Wakeley's. Today no one is sure who owns the access road to the existing Woodger's Wharf. It was a major problem when Peter Woodger wanted to develop the area into a marina with housing. The application failed on this point. Although the owner of the nearby caravan park/stables will quickly tell you the road is private property. It is, I guess but the owner is unknown, according to a great deal of research for the last planning application. I will continue to walk and use the lane, like workers have done since at least 1855. Today it still provides access to the Overshore caravan park, Plantation House, Admiralty Tip, Woodger's Wharf and of access to the river where Reginald Wells did his seaplane testing. ( See what I did there? The topic has returned to where we started some months ago.)
It is an interesting site. TBA
Mike
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Mike, the reason I'm confused is that the Burge works closed in 1915 as you and t'other site say. On the other hand, Messrs Eastwood's site at Overshore was in operation in, say, 1894 (c.f. BNA) and carried on well into living memory. I guess they were simply next door as you say.
I notice that there was a White House at Overshore, home of Percy Betts who died in WW1.
I did a book on the last brickfield site to be developed on the Four Gun Field site next to The Three Sisters pub. I have pix of the brickfield site on Otterham Quay, which is where the mobile home site is today. If you walk through this site, stay next to river bank you come to Woodger's Wharf. Behind the fenced area, used to be the site of Overshore Cottages. Other names, as you mentioned The White House, Falcon House, and Overshore Cottages along Coveney Lane. Interesting place but more detail has to be found and written up. People are dying and forgetting about their history.
Thx
Mike
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Talking of which... http://www.dover-kent.com/2014-project-b/Lord-Stanley-Upchurch.html (http://www.dover-kent.com/2014-project-b/Lord-Stanley-Upchurch.html) (same image, mind!)
Overshore Cottages appear in the (zoomable) map in the link in post 3.
Nemo: That was the Lord Stanley pub ( left )at the bottom of Windmill Hill. Mentioned in a previous post, it was a scene photographed by a local Rainham photographer. When the windmill caught fire in 1910, the photographer missed the event and just added painted smoke to the mill and put the image on sale again. It looks strange but an early example of Photoshopping on a photograph.
I think this was covered in the Mill section on this forum by ex member and expert bertroid: https://www.kenthistoryforum.com/index.php?topic=450.0
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Hi MikeGunnill. I've left a reply on the other thread, which you may have missed?
I'm hoping you can supply a better image or background details on your biplane picture. I appreciate you are busy writing your new article/book. I know that plane is now of little interest to you, but it is to those of you who have taken time out to help you out. Cheers.
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Hi MikeGunnill. I've left a reply on the other thread, which you may have missed?
I'm hoping you can supply a better image or background details on your biplane picture. I appreciate you are busy writing your new article/book. I know that plane is now of little interest to you, but it is to those of you who have taken time out to help you out. Cheers.
Thats the only image I have, which I obtained from a Wells relation. On the back of the image was " Reginald standing on the aircraft wing in 1915 for a picture of the Wells Aviation Company Limited. First making aircraft parts, then fuselages and eventually under contract - the company produced complete aircraft."
The aircraft is very important but I have moved on, to the Overshore location. My work has be centred on Kent, except for a short time testing at Overshore and of course his 9 years as a potter based in the county, he has little connection with Kent.
I didn't miss your previous posting. I replied to you personally by PM explaining what I was doing.
Kind Regards
Mike
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Hi Mike,
thanks for the reply. Shame there's not a better image. To confirm the description (First making aircraft parts, then fuselages and eventually under contract - the company produced complete aircraft.") appears to be born out in period articles.
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Hi Mike,
thanks for the reply. Shame there's not a better image. To confirm the description (First making aircraft parts, then fuselages and eventually under contract - the company produced complete aircraft.") appears to be born out in period articles.
It is a shame but until I found the image, this image hadn't been seen or even published before. The quality of finished picture was the very best I could obtain in by 50+ years as a photographer. The latter years using PhotoShop software everyday. If of course we could locate the photographer, perhaps he kept his glass negatives we would have a better image. The image is a moment of history and has already reproduced in two magazine. It has inspired others, like yourself to look at this great man. The Wells family themselves had never seen the picture and were very pleased. Sometimes you have to accept what you have, knowing there is very chance of improving on it. This image is such an example, I guess.
There are other people to find in this story, his secret mistress, who inspired him. She lost three fingers when trying to start an aircraft-propeller for Wells. Where are the Kent built Wells-Cottages? They have never been found. Plus his bankruptcy at the end of the war when practical matters caught up with his big ideas and dreams. This may take a while.
It is also confusing that we now appear to be posting about the same man in two different areas of this forum.